[Resolved] Toolset is not for non developers !

[Author]

Posts

[Akhil]

I stand by this.

Toolset is not for non coders. why you may ask ?

1. the search engine of the website sucks, i cant find anything i am looking for . why cant there be separate search for documents and forum topics, why merge 2 ? moreover the loading can be very frustratiing slow. i have no idea what is going on, if its even fetching result, there is no single loading gif etc at all .

2. the documentations is not complete. we need more sample code guys, you wanna say ask forum support ?

3. ok . waiting time expected for 1 single question can be 18hrs , [i can give you many sample case ont his one ] this is ridiculolus for premium product support !

if you're same boat as me do voice out too !

over to you to.

[Akhil]

adding to no 1. the site search , lets think about this.

when you gave us the recent related post results with the keyword inside, fine ., BUT you do know that latest questions are mostly in QUE and most of the time THERE IS NO ANSWER inside that page ?
i need to click the damn "Next Page " for bloody 100 time to get the result, if am lucky.

So if you declare your product is for non coders, either
1. give us quick answer in the support forum or
2. give more sample code in the documentations, those frequently asked , that will be good for your support staff to concentrate on the big account question, isn't ?

best stil if you can do 1 and 2 .

[Beda]

I am not sure what relates Toolset being made for coders or not, referring to how our Documentation and Forum works.

However, it is not necessary for me to understand this I think.

I see what you mean and will answer below to the concerns:

1. The search is not the greatest, I agree, I don't use it myself often, and I suggest continuous improvements to our teams, it is, however, difficult to satisfy all needs. But I always pass along feedback and will do so with this as well, apart of still trying to suggest better approaches on our DOC as well, since I do as well use Toolset, not only Support it.

2. The Searches for "Tickets" and "Errata" has been put in the same results so you can search for something and find either issues' solutions we already know about, or find another kind of solutions (already solved).
I think that was a good improvement, however, I agree that the (visually feedbacked with a spinning wheel) load time is slow.
It is a massive database to query, from that point of view it is not that slow, but I still prefer Google, instead of the search of any forum I use, even external

3. The Documentation is indeed something I often ask for improvements as well, and I invite you to share the precise missing data you wish to see so I can ask for it to be prioritized.

Sample code for a Plugin that is made for non-coders, however, makes not much purpose, but we even it is not our Tool's Purpose, a full doc about that as well:
https://toolset.com/documentation/adding-custom-code/
There is an entire set of connected DOC's there about how to code, if this is what you want to do, however, Toolset is made for non-coders and does not have unlimited cpacaity.
Yes at some point you need code, if you want to go above the scope of Toolset, however, Toolset is precisely made (and works) without code if used within it's supported functionality that does not involve Code(API).

I think we can agree on this, and with the DOC we provide (and support in a certain level) one can even learn WordPress and PHP using Toolset. We offer relatively high support and DOC in that area, even if not being our primary point of application, which is to create a tool that needs no code to build a website.

Would you like to see more real-life examples?

4. We are loaded in the forum right now, usually, the waiting time should be less, and we do our best to reply in time.

5. BUT you do know that the latest questions are mostly in QUE, and most of the time THERE IS NO ANSWER inside that page ?

You can use the checkbox "Search only in resolved threads", which shows threads that are logically not in the queue anymore.

6. Plugins for non-coders do not imply automatically an excellent Support Forum search, but they indicate a Plugin that lets you design a Website with no coding, and I think toolset does that

I will pass the feedback on the search along to the teams, and I do suggest not to use it if you are not getting the results you wish.
I usually try google with a "Site: toolset.com search_query_here."
That gives me more precise results.

What sample codes are you looking for?
We cannot provide such, but may be able to give ideas and examples, or link you with Contractors:
https://toolset.com/contractors/

Thanks for your feedback, and I am looking forward to knowing what specific code snippets and docs (what area) you would like to see so I can as well feedback this to the teams

[Akhil]

I am not sure what relates Toolset being made for coders or not, referring to how our Documentation and Forum works.
>> toolset alway since day 1 claim to be one, "you dont need to be coders to create custom wordpress applications", its everywhere, we shall move on .

3. the documents whats missing is the cred,user form conditionals, etc ,There is very few on this subject,. i often land on result that belong to othere components.

4. external search - yes i do that to of course, but the result can be confusing , it could be not relevant anymore. example usage of wpv-if depreciations.

5. code snippets i mean more example from the API that provided in documentations, updated or frequently asked or used codes etc.

Thanks.

[Beda]

1. OK, I do not understand how that relates. I understand, that Toolset is and is advertized as a Plugin to let you build websites with no code, it is not advertized as to teach code, but to avoid it, within its limits, which are less low than with barebone WordPress and a theme.
However, I understand the concern expressed.

2. I think I can share the DOC you miss here:
https://toolset.com/documentation/getting-started-with-toolset/publish-content-from-the-front-end/
https://toolset.com/documentation/getting-started-with-toolset/publish-content-from-the-front-end/forms-for-creating-content/
https://toolset.com/documentation/getting-started-with-toolset/publish-content-from-the-front-end/forms-for-registering-users/
https://toolset.com/documentation/getting-started-with-toolset/publish-content-from-the-front-end/forms-for-editing/
https://toolset.com/documentation/getting-started-with-toolset/publish-content-from-the-front-end/building-forms-for-editing-when-using-layouts/

About conditionals in Forms, you can rely on this:
https://toolset.com/documentation/user-guides/conditional-display-for-form-inputs/
https://toolset.com/documentation/user-guides/cred-conditional-display-engine/

Please let me know if you miss any particular subject

3. Yes, although in the Toolset forum you get less precise results.
I use this:
hidden link
hidden link
With that you can for example even exclude wpv-if code

I can answer that we are constantly working on improvements and this is a work in progress. We try to ensure that with the WordPress database we can provide a good search (I can pass along particular feedback)

6. I understand

There is a generic example (or a few, usually) under each Code API DOC that exists:
https://toolset.com/documentation/customizing-sites-using-php/functions/ > "More" (holds the samples)
https://toolset.com/documentation/customizing-sites-using-php/post-relationships-api/ > "More" (holds the samples)
This is similar on all API DOC's and we have the extensive DOC on how to create Custom Code as shared before, as well generic about hooks, to learn how to work with:
https://toolset.com/documentation/programmer-reference/toolset-hooks/

We as well offer contact to professional contractors, that can help with further customizations:
https://toolset.com/contractors/

Toolset usually helps most people to build all of their sites, however when you need things that are above its features, you can use the API (eventually) and we can explain how to use it, however, custom code is something we cannot provide (neither in support nor in the Documents)

The page shared earlier, https://toolset.com/documentation/adding-custom-code/, was just added recently, with a lot of useful snippets. We may add more in the future, and other libraries are planned, maybe even user contributed.

This is something that as well is work in progress, constantly, within the boundaries of our Support

Thank you for the feedback, it is valuable to us.

[Beda]

changing status