[Resolved] White Page of Death when editing post

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[mikeB-20]

Hi
OK - you know what you're doing and I don't. That might achieve a temporary, quick, fix. Krystal take regular back ups and told me yesterday they will help with restoring the site. Let's hope they will!
They have also now advised me they will create a staging site. I will be in touch.
Mike

[Nigel]

OK, I used the plugin to downgrade to WP 6.4.4.

Please re-activate Toolset Blocks and check to see if the reported problems still occur or not.

Hopefully not, and then I can investigate the issue on the staging server with less time pressure.

[mikeB-20]

Thank you so much. I have reactivated/restored as appropriate and everything seems to be working just fine 🙂

Krystal have created a staging site and here is the link to it:
hidden link

I'm really grateful for your help.

As the site seems to be working, I'm leaving this now until Monday/Tuesday next week, so hopefully we can wrap this up then. I will have occasional access to email and limited ability to look at the back end of the site while I'm away, but it would be too fiddly to do anything delicate.
Best regards
Mike

[Nigel]

Hi Mike

I was off Friday, so I'm looking into this now.

I am able to access the staging site. But it doesn't have the pages/posts that you referenced earlier (in your first private reply) as examples that were problematic when Toolset was active.

(They have post IDs 27035, 26576, and 26427; I added a plugin that lets me inspect the database directly and can confirm that they do not exist.)

Now that we are not under the pressure of the live site, when you return can you log into the staging server and identify content that would have problems when Toolset is active? (Note the staging server has an old version of WordPress active—6.3.4—so it won't exhibit the problems that happen with WordPress 6.5.2; if you need to have version 6.5.2 active to know which content has the problem go ahead and update.)

[mikeB-20]

Hi Nigel

Most of this stuff is way beyond my ability to understand. When I saw your message this morning, I clicked onto the link and saw a version of my website that was about 9 months out of sate - long before I'd even heard of Toolset! I contacted Krystal and asked them to create a staging site of the CURRENT site. They replied to say that they have done this and directed me to something called 'Softaculous', which I found. The staging site is still called hidden link and when I first looked at it, it was still way out of date. However, when I logged into the admin back end, everything seemed to be there - albeit one of the pages has changed appearance slightly.

The white page problem originally manifested itself with the Post 'Britain's Places' id 26576, which I could not edit.

It then appeared as a problem with 'Castles of the Lune Valley' - id 27035.

After trying for hours to investigate/resolve this myself (including cleaning unwanted material using the Litespeed Database optimiser), I contacted Krystal, who 'solved' the problem by disabling Toolset blocks. They also installed the Query Monitor plugin, which seemed to pepper the entire site with error messages (the first I learnt of this was when a follower pointed it out.)

I disabled Query Monitor last week, so that is no longer causing a problem.

Disabling Toolset blocks brought down all content that referenced /used the custom post type 'Places', which I have been developing for weeks using Toolset. This included the page 'ABAB's Places - id 26427, which is the showcase for this content and which is intended to ultimately replace the listings section of the website (via the Business Directory plugin). This process is underway.

You suggested a possible conflict between Toolset and the latest version of WordPress - which chimed with other advice on the internet.

Currently, it seems the WP version 6.5.2 is running on the website (I didn't do that!).

Currently, I appear to be able to see posts to edit them.

Something weird has obviously been happening - and Krystal haven't helped (whih surpises me - they are normally excellent, and helpful). I do not pretend to understand what is going on, but look forward to hearing from you. It has taken up so much time!

Regards

Mike

[Nigel]

I'm now seeing the current version of the site at the staging URL, too, not sure what happened there.

In any case, having logged in, I have tried to edit the 3 posts you referred to:

hidden link
hidden link
hidden link

I don't encounter any problems.

I note the site is updated to WordPress 6.5.2, and Toolset plugins—including Toolset Blocks—are active on the site.

So on the staging server there doesn't appear to be any issue to investigate.

If you are happy that the content on the staging server is up-to-date (matching that on the production server), I would ask your host

1. are there any differences in the environment between the staging and production servers that might account for the problem on the production server? If not,

2. can they push the staging server to production, replacing what is currently available at the production server.

I'm sorry I don't have a simple answer for you that explains why you've experienced these problems, and I'm sure you would much rather be working on your site content, but they are proving somewhat elusive.

[mikeB-20]

Hi Nigel
Thanks for that. I'm very grateful for you looking at this, but I don't understand. I could edit the live site yesterday and actually made some slight changes to it this morning, to see what would happen. It seems fine.
1. If the staging site was copied from the live site, why would it be any different?
2. I notice that the staging site seems to have had page views. How can that happen?
3. If the Toolset blocks plugin was apparently causing a problem last week, something must have changed to mean that it isn't causing a problem now. What?
4. How do I know it won't cause a problem again? Obviously, things go wrong sometimes, but I need to be able to be sure that I can rely on Toolset. It seems to be able to do exactly what I want and a big part of site content is going to be driven by it. Before buying into Toolset, I was assured that if for any reason Toolset was disabled, the custom post types created with it would still be there - but this does not seem to be the case?
I do need to be getting on with content, but I really don't know how to proceed. To save time, I will get in touch with Krystal anyway, as you suggest, but would welcome your response to the above as soon as you are able before believing it's OK to carry on with business as usual.
Regards
Mike

[Nigel]

>I could edit the live site yesterday and actually made some slight changes to it this morning

But, isn't your production site running WordPress 6.4? So you wouldn't expect to run into any problems?

Whereas the staging server is running 6.5, which is when you might expect it to encounter issues, but it doesn't.

Because I haven't experienced or been able to isolate the problems on your site myself I can't give you a clear answer about the cause.

There is a specific issue we know of relating to Toolset Blocks and WordPress 6.5, though I'm not sure that is what has been the problem with your site, as I'm yet to see the issue myself. The developers proposed a fix, but during testing have identified an edge case where the fix doesn't work, so they are still working on it.

I expect it should be available for release—after testing—in a few days.

So I would continue to work on your content on the production server as it is.

Now that you have a staging server available, when we publish an update to Toolset Blocks that contains the fix for the known issue, test it on the staging server to see that nothing appears to break.

Then go ahead an update the production server with the new version, and update the server to WordPress 6.5.

Re-test to see that things continue to work. In the event that something does go wrong, you would have your daily backups to revert to (or you could rollback WordPress), and we would have to resume trying to locate the source of the problem.

A note about post types registered with Toolset continuing to work if you deactivated Toolset. To clarify, all of the posts would still be in the database, but WordPress wouldn't know about them, because it wouldn't know about the post type. You would have to use something other than Toolset to register the post type, and then WordPress would be able to access them as usual. (You could register the post types with code, but I'm guessing you would more likely want to use some other plugin.)

[mikeB-20]

Hi Nigel
Thanks. Quick and incomplete response, because I need to go out, but both live and staging sites are running WP 6.5.2 - as I said yesterday, I didn't do that!
Mike

[mikeB-20]

Hi Nigel
Response from Krystal:
"The live and staging are both running on the same cpanel, so they will be using the exact same configuration, there will be no differences here at all."

By 'production server' you mean what I would call the 'live site'?

It seems I may as well carry on with the latest version of WordPress.

So - I carry on working on my site, but presumably disable auto-updates to Toolset plugins? Toolset had a hissy fit when this was disabled previously!

I may know nothing about how websites work, but every problem has a cause - and the Query Monitor plugin suggested an issue with Toolset, did it not? Or is that just a useless plugin that I can get rid of? Was the chap at Krystal too quick to blame Toolset?

Regarding Toolset overall, I spent a long time looking into various options to create post types without code and Toolset looked to be the solution. The alternatives looked even more complicated. But I need to be as sure as possible it's robust and not going to fail in the foreseeable future. Obviously, nothing is problem-free, but can you reassure me?

I am anxious to get back to the ABAB project in the morning!

Mike

[mikeB-20]

Sorry, Nigel - a (probably) unrelated question. Krystal say they're upgrading all cPanel servers currently running MariaDB 10.3., initially to version 10.6, with the aim to upgrade to 10.11 early next year.

I have no idea what this means. But will it cause any issues with Toolset?

Mike

[Nigel]

Upgrading the database version shouldn't cause problems, if it works well for WordPress it should be okay for Toolset, too.

You don't need Query Monitor running on your site, it's a diagnostic plugin, and only needs to be (should only be) active when actually diagnosing issues.

I'm repeating myself, but because I never got to see the issue—it has gone away without me being able to see and investigate it—I can't comment on it, other than to speculate.

Because the environment continually changes—the server might be upgraded, WordPress releases new versions, other plugins on the site release new versions—problems can emerge. Not just with Toolset, but other plugins, or even WordPress itself.

So I can't say that you won't experience any problems ever again, but I can say that if you do we will respond and work to resolve them as quickly as we can.

Most website developers have a workflow that involves a staging site, where changes and updates are tested, before these are pushed to the production (live) site, so that the live website itself isn't affected by any issues that arise, but if you work directly on the production site then daily backups will protect you, as you can quickly revert.

[mikeB-20]

Hi Nigel
OK, thanks. To summarise from your reply, above:
1. Thanks for the advice about the database upgrade being unlikely to cause a problem with Toolset.
2. Unless you advise otherwise (?) I will delete Query Monitor - I have too many plugins as it is.
3. Query Monitor, notwithstanding causing significant problems of its own, identified specific errors with Toolset.
4. What you say about a staging site makes sense, particularly if you are a developer. But I am (clearly!) not a developer. I am merely a guy trying to create world-class content about Britain. I can see it still makes sense to have a staging site handy, but it is reasonable to expect and trust that plugins have been extensively tested by the developers before being released - especially if they are paid for. And, to date, that has caused me no problems.
5. Can you please confirm whether you believe it is necessary to disable auto-updates with Toolset plugins, so that these can be tested on my staging site first to ensure they don't cause problems? That is counter to the above, to general advice about allowing updates and with my own experience when Toolset plugins were not auto-updating. I have to say that would erode confidence in Toolset as the solution to what I am trying to create.
6. Obviously, it is unreasonable to not expect any problems, but this one forced the temporary removal of key information from the website for awhile and has meant that no new content has been posted for a week. Admittedly, my own absence for a few days over a weekend hasn't helped. But it been a completely frustrating experience and use of time. And we still don't know why.

I have to say it has been a pleasure dealing with you, because you do respond and at least I can (mostly) understand what you are saying! I await your response to this (particularly item 5) and, meanwhile, will take a gamble on cracking on with new content using Toolset.

Regards

Mike

[mikeB-20]

Hi Nigel
Just a gentle nudge for your reply to my last, and hopefully final, message on this topic yesterday.
Btw, working on the website yesterday without any apparent problem relating to Toolset.
Regards
Mike

[Nigel]

Hi Mike

You can go ahead and remove the Query Monitor plugin. It is a diagnostic tool, and it should not be active except when being used. If you delete it, it is trivial to add it again in the future.

As for the question of enabling auto-updates, we have not had any reports of problems with it that I'm aware of, and yesterday I was testing it on my local site to see if it worked as intended, and it did.

So I don't think you need to disable it, although if you don't ordinarily use a staging site I would recommend disabling it for all plugins, not just Toolset.

You will still see update notices when new versions are available, but you can trigger the updates manually at a time that suits you. By doing them purposefully this way, at a time that suits you, you can perform updates and then do a quick check of your site to make sure everything seems to be normal. If you find a problem you can downgrade or revert to a backup.

If there were a serious problem that emerged with a plugin (not specifically Toolset) and you needed to revert to a backup, with auto-updates enabled that problem could be triggered at the end of a day when you had added quite a bit of new content to your site, which would be lost when restoring the backup.

Better to take control of your plugin updates.