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[Resolved] Migrating from Layouts…

This thread is resolved. Here is a description of the problem and solution.

Problem:
Is it okay to still use Layouts for sites? It's in maintenance mode...

Solution:
The short answer is yes.

For a lengthy discussion, read the reply below: https://toolset.com/forums/topic/migrating-from-layouts/#post-1300387

This support ticket is created 5 years, 5 months ago. There's a good chance that you are reading advice that it now obsolete.

This is the technical support forum for Toolset - a suite of plugins for developing WordPress sites without writing PHP.

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This topic contains 3 replies, has 2 voices.

Last updated by Gavin 5 years, 5 months ago.

Assisted by: Nigel.

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#1300319

Hi Team

I've built many sites using a very basic theme, then doing the design with Layouts/CSS. It's been a great way of working because you are not limited by off-the-shelf theme headers/navbars/footers but can style your own using a parent layout. This gives me, as a developer and designer, a great deal of flexibility. I began with Bootstrap Starter, then when that was dropped, used very light themes so I could style everything myself from the ground up.

I also like to work with HTML/CSS and be able to switch between Visual/HTML editors as you can change the layout of the HMTL. If you use the Visual blocks editor you lose the ability to format in HTML in a neat way.

I've just read about the migration from Bootstrap 3.0 to 4.0 and this is very welcome, but also read that you are not recommending starting projects with Layouts anymore.

I'm mid-way through developing a government website. It's a reasonably big project in terms of using Toolset - it's got multiple post types, taxonomies, WooCommerce, post relationships, etc. I'm using a light theme and Layouts for the design side of things.

It seems that losing Layouts is going to give developers like me less control, not more.

I guess my question is, do I drop Layouts, and if I do, what is the alternative? Having custom Layouts for Post Types is great. Do I switch back to using Content Templates for this and start using the non-drag-and-drop editor for Content Templates? Am I going to have to be reliant on off-the-shelf themes for custom headers, navbars, and footers from now on?

Many Thanks

Gavin

#1300387

Nigel
Supporter

Languages: English (English ) Spanish (Español )

Timezone: Europe/London (GMT+00:00)

Hi Gavin

I'm wary of making any cast-iron promises that I'm not in a position to keep, but let me share some thoughts here as to why I think you can continue to use Layouts with some confidence.

The key point here is why are we moving away from Layouts, which is explained by why we are switching towards the Block Editor (Gutenberg) for designing templates.

Toolset had the ability to make templates using HTML, but people like using page builders, and hence Layouts was born. But people vote with their feet, and many clients liked using Divi, Visual Composer, Avada Fusion Builder, Elementor, Oxygen etc. etc.

Adding and maintaining Toolset support for these page builders has consumed thousands of development hours. Although like many people we were initially somewhat sceptical about Gutenberg, we came to realise that as the project matures and with enhancements that we and others develop, you will be adding a pretty good page builder right into WordPress core.

Which means the rationale for maintaining support for lots of different page builders is eroded, and we can focus our efforts and resources on making the block editing experience a first class citizen when it comes to designing templates, and putting more time and energy into making Toolset a better product.

The expectation is that Layouts, too, would be eventually obsoleted to some extent by these developments.

Now, this isn't an attempt to foist what we want onto our users, it's an effort to deliver what our users need—albeit with some nudging—in a way that works for both them and us.

And if there are users for whom Layouts is a better solution than the block editor, then we will naturally need to maintain Layouts so that it can continue to be used as an alternative to blocks. Which still leaves us in a far better position than the current situation of supporting a multitude of page builders.

(As an aside, it's also a good example of the benefits of subscription-based pricing vs. lifetime accounts, because it means we have to keep existing clients happy and not just focus on new ones.)

So, either the Block editor will evolve in such a way as to make Layouts redundant, which is the one scenario where I see Layouts actually being retired rather than staying in maintenance mode, or each will continue to offer something unique that different segments of our user base need, in which case we have all the justification we need to look after Layouts and its users.

You are a long-time user so are actually using Layouts in a way that most current users are not, namely with an integrated theme that allows you to design the entire page, from header to footer, for which there are very limited alternative solutions out there, and which is a strong argument for the continued existence of Layouts. The Gutenberg project has a long-term ambition to also be used for parts of the page other than the content, but that's still quite some way off.

#1300429

Thanks for the long and well-put reply.

I understand the need to keep up with the way most people are using Toolset in terms of the design element. I think your last paragraph summed it up nicely. There's something neat about having all the design elements in one place - header to footer. I suspect I'm not the norm tho!

For this project I will continue to use Layouts (currently migrating styles from Bootstrap 3.0 to 4.0!). Like all websites, it's not cast in stone. Should it need redeveloping without Layouts at a future date, it can be done. I'm just wishing the Internet here on Ascension Island was a bit quicker and bit cheaper - makes for slow progress!

I've been a fan of Toolset since I first used it. It is an incredible suite. The support has been second-to-none and I've pushed it to the limits. Thanks again to you and all the team.

#1300437

Thanks.